Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

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Old Git John
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by Old Git John »

PhilD wrote:I'll give you 10 out of 10 John for being able to find something wrong with things, the leaflet looks ok to me.
Nothing wrong with the leaflet.

I have to ask OF just what do Hawkers,(day/night)
look like. It appears that he has a preconceived impression of cloak and dagger
dramatics surrounding thieves going equipped, which is far from the truth. They
look just like the rest of us, and many of us do not actually realise that we are in
their presence when at club meetings or on digs.
I was detecting with a guy many years ago when his adult son suddenly said, " think
you should know, I am a night hawker", The father then confirmed that he too was
into it. I took such action as I felt was necessary, and would again.
When in company, keep your eyes and ears tuned in to what is being said, or done.
I used to have an issue regarding having an inferiority complex, I no longer have an issue with being inferior.

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

Old Git John wrote:
PhilD wrote:I'll give you 10 out of 10 John for being able to find something wrong with things, the leaflet looks ok to me.
Nothing wrong with the leaflet.

I have to ask OF just what do Hawkers,(day/night)
look like. It appears that he has a preconceived impression of cloak and dagger
dramatics surrounding thieves going equipped, which is far from the truth. They
look just like the rest of us, and many of us do not actually realise that we are in
their presence when at club meetings or on digs.
I was detecting with a guy many years ago when his adult son suddenly said, " think
you should know, I am a night hawker", The father then confirmed that he too was
into it. I took such action as I felt was necessary, and would again.
When in company, keep your eyes and ears tuned in to what is being said, or done.
I think its all a matter of perspective ... its always important to step back and see things from the farmers side. One of my farmers has near 3,000 acres, and believe me he knows every inch of his land. If holes appear in his fields he knows about it within days ... and he will have a very good idea as to what caused them. Farmers dont need to be told how to interpret their work place; now had the farming community been engaged in the production of the leaflet, and it had been endorsed by the NFU or similar thats a totally different matter.
Turning to the photo ... Anyone would agree that its as good as any seen on the front of the Searcher ... a perfectly respectable looking person, having a great day out on a lovely spring day. Maybe a pamphlet on night hawking should show "night" shots? with the culprits trying to hide their faces. Yes there are some brass neck, decent looking detectorists, who do the farmers front lawn while he is on holiday, but please lets not confuse a few brazen opportunists ... with the real target of the leaflet.

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Old Git John
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by Old Git John »

OF, you need to understand that a night time image showing some erk trying to hide their face would NOT
attract the same number of readers as a daylight one. The person holding the detector has his back to the
camera, quite normal in this kind of context, the message is what matters. I repeat that any one of us
has probably been in the company of rogue detector users, this description not being the same as detectorists.
They are a curse on our hobby, and to the understanding of our great nation's heritage, I know of nobody who
would disagree with that. What many of us accept is that NOT ENOUGH are prepared to report them, with any
kind of tangible proof of their activities, such as photographs, names, places, vehicle VRM's, time and or date.
Now, I am not saying that those who fail to report would not, what I am saying that they realise that under the
present situation, they know that little or nothing will get done to bring them to justice.
We cannot however expect the NCMD, and any other parties who have an interest in ridding the land of their evil,
to be the only ones to take action. What I am saying that, in my opinion, you are taking the wrong route to
expose these criminals, by reporting your thoughts to the wrong authority. It is the police to whom crime has
to be reported, they in turn will contact who they feel it is necessary to bring into the matter in hand. I know
that we have members on UKDN who are in the job, (police officers), and really good ones. I have been there
and done it, it is not easy, often very frustrating, and above all else VITAL to us all.
The point is that, if you as a member of the public, and a detectorist, suspect that a crime has taken place, or,
even better know that a crime has taken place, and that you are prepared to go under oath in court, to back
up your suspicions, then you must go down the correct route, which is as I stated earlier. The constabulary
has specially trained officers who can weed out the facts, from the mere thoughts of individuals. On the basis
of probability they get it right more often than not. So, just accept that, perhaps you would have been better
thought of, had you gone directly to the police. I find it touching that you are very sincere in your beliefs, but sad
that you cannot accept having got it s little wrong this time. Keep switched on to what you see, but take it the
right way.
I used to have an issue regarding having an inferiority complex, I no longer have an issue with being inferior.

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

I think that we have each been responding to two complete different threads of thought ... I have been highlighting the obvious deficiencies in the night hawking leaflet, whereas what I think you are referring to is that fact that I reported potential night hawking activity to the archis and not the police. please lets not confuse the image on the phamplet with the holes at Barbury castle ... the two are totally unrelated.
Had the sign at the entrance to Barbury castle mentioned the heritage Crime Prevention Officer's contact details then I would have contacted him/her when I got home, as it was I just had to make do with what I could get from the tinternet.

Also for those interested in following this thread I did a quick google on the meaning of a forum ... and here is the definition "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged" ... for those willing to exchange views in a civil manner like OGJ and Harry, then please accept my sincere compliments ... and power to your elbow.

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jcmaloney
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by jcmaloney »

Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

jcmaloney wrote:Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team
You assume the holes appeared yesterday ... !!! But they appeared a couple of years ago. So suggest you try a retrospective search. But thanks for going to the trouble anyway.

I cant see any mention of Archaeology, detecting or night hawking in their Rural crime Prevention literature so I guess why my search didnt link to their page, assuming the page was up and running way back then!! just a thought! :kissblow:

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Harry UP
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by Harry UP »

oldfossil wrote:
jcmaloney wrote:Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team
You assume the holes appeared yesterday ... !!! But they appeared a couple of years ago.
I think it's safe to assume everyone thought it was a recent event!
It's also safe to assume the spade wielding badgers have moved onto pastures new! :hahaha:

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

Harry UP wrote:
oldfossil wrote:
jcmaloney wrote:Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team
You assume the holes appeared yesterday ... !!! But they appeared a couple of years ago.
I think it's safe to assume everyone thought it was a recent event!
It's also safe to assume the spade wielding badgers have moved onto pastures new! :hahaha:
Fair enough .. but not a mention of detecting in their leaflet .. no mention of Archaeology either ... night hawking ----> not a so much as a squeak ... talking of which bats get a mention :g38: :g38:

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Harry UP
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by Harry UP »

oldfossil wrote:
Harry UP wrote:
I think it's safe to assume everyone thought it was a recent event!
It's also safe to assume the spade wielding badgers have moved onto pastures new! :hahaha:
Fair enough .. but not a mention of detecting in their leaflet .. no mention of Archaeology either ... night hawking ----> not a so much as a squeak ... talking of which bats get a mention :g38: :g38:
I see what you did there :hahaha:

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jcmaloney
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by jcmaloney »

oldfossil wrote:
jcmaloney wrote:Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team
You assume the holes appeared yesterday ... !!! But they appeared a couple of years ago. So suggest you try a retrospective search. But thanks for going to the trouble anyway.

I cant see any mention of Archaeology, detecting or night hawking in their Rural crime Prevention literature so I guess why my search didnt link to their page, assuming the page was up and running way back then!! just a thought! :kissblow:
So the holes are two years old & you have only just decided to post about it???

Stable door & horses!!

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Old Git John
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by Old Git John »

jcmaloney wrote:
oldfossil wrote:
jcmaloney wrote:Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team
You assume the holes appeared yesterday ... !!! But they appeared a couple of years ago. So suggest you try a retrospective search. But thanks for going to the trouble anyway.

I cant see any mention of Archaeology, detecting or night hawking in their Rural crime Prevention literature so I guess why my search didnt link to their page, assuming the page was up and running way back then!! just a thought! :kissblow:
So the holes are two years old & you have only just decided to post about it???

Stable door & horses!!
Plus a load of unnecessary bad feeling type posting by dedicated hobby detectorists.
Waste of space comes to mind. :g58:
I used to have an issue regarding having an inferiority complex, I no longer have an issue with being inferior.

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

jcmaloney wrote:
oldfossil wrote:
jcmaloney wrote:Took me all of 20 seconds to type "Wiltshire Wildlife & Heritage Crime Officer" into Google... http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/departme ... crime-team
You assume the holes appeared yesterday ... !!! But they appeared a couple of years ago. So suggest you try a retrospective search. But thanks for going to the trouble anyway.

I cant see any mention of Archaeology, detecting or night hawking in their Rural crime Prevention literature so I guess why my search didnt link to their page, assuming the page was up and running way back then!! just a thought! :kissblow:
So the holes are two years old & you have only just decided to post about it???

Stable door & horses!!
Think that you meant stable door and badgers :g45: :g45: ...
With the greatest greatest respect I guess its up to me as to when, where, and how I publish the info.. But I wouldn't keep making assumptions.
What I am seeing is some lack of joined up thinking ... One publication ignores night hawking as a heritage crime, and another seems to have left involvement of farmers out of the equation.
I wonder if there has ever been a convention on night hawking, where we get the great and powerful from the Archi's, Detectorists, Farmers, Law enforcement, and even representation from reformed night hawkers (yes even they can be reformed) around the table at the exact same time? So that issues can be brought to the fore and some joined up solutions sought. Based on limited stuff I've seen so far I would guess its a big NO, I'm left scratching my head. We are 40+ years into the management of the Hobby, so one has to ask the obvious question: Why hasn't there been a National convention?

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

OGJ "Plus a load of unnecessary bad feeling type posting by dedicated hobby detectorists.
Waste of space comes to mind. "

OGJ ... I dont understand what you mean or where you are coming from...
Never once was the recency of the photos mentioned or implied. As I have been at pains to say in previous posts the photos are the photos.. Sorry but there aint alot I can do about that.
I did say they were holiday snaps ... so it's a fair guess that the photos weren't taken last weekend.

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Old Git John
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Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by Old Git John »

Old Git John wrote:
PhilD wrote:If I was a landowner I would find a drone very useful.

I could patrol my land in safety very very quickly and have peace of mind.

A quick call on 999 if I see anything going on out there and take a few piccies too.

Quite right Phil, the night sight idea could be adapted for use with drones, as appropriate lenses are on the market.
I used to have an issue regarding having an inferiority complex, I no longer have an issue with being inferior.

oldfossil

Re: Joint meeting in stance against heritage crime

Post by oldfossil »

Here is another communique where Heritage Crime doesnt get a look in.. https://northyorkshire.police.uk/conten ... ebsite.pdf
One has to ask the question why? Maybe heritage crime doesnt exist after all???
I am not looking very hard to find examples, but time and time again, we see a lack of joined up thinking by the powers that be.
If only our representatives would take the initiative to get everyone round the table we could end running around the countryside like headless badgers, chasing shadows that may or may not exist, and get action to prevent the desecration of some of most precious heritage sites (many happen to be in Wiltshire I might add). I fear that if we dont get decent preventative measures in place, this thread will be going for another 40 years!

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