Can anyone help me identify this badge

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blue_yeti
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Re: Can anyone help me identify this badge

Post by blue_yeti »

Yep it's a shoulder belt plate. What the holes are anyone's guess. Could be a brutal repair, could be mounted to something later in life!

BY
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PhilD
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Re: Can anyone help me identify this badge

Post by PhilD »

Thanks BY, I'll pass the info on :g50:
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PhilD
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Re: Can anyone help me identify this badge

Post by PhilD »

I've just had this reply from the editor;

Hi Phil,
I wrote to Wally Elliott recently and forwarded your findings on his mystery badge and this is his reply.
I'll probably put a follow-up piece in the paper in the next week or two,
Regards
Patrick Edwards

Tel: 01874 610111
Fax: 01874 624359
------------------------
The Brecon and Radnor Express Ltd is a limited company registered in England
and Wales. Registered number: 2677142. Registered Office: The Old Court House, Union Road, Farnham, GU9 7PT
___________________________________________________________________________
Confidentiality Notice: This message and any accompanying files contain
confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose.
This information is private and protected by law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or
distribution, or the taking of any action based on the contents of this
information, is strictly prohibited.

Begin forwarded message:

From: wally elliott

Date: 10 May 2017 21:29:19 GMT+01:00

To: Editor <theeditor@brecon-radnor.co.uk>

Subject: Re: Identification of Badge

Hi Patrick,
I am delighted that two of your readers have identified the "mystery" badge and so
quickly. Both Phil Dunning and Phil Harvey have come up with two explanations of the badge's
history which coincide.
I have metal detected for over forty years and used the experience and academic understanding
of the archaeologist to fathom the mysteries of unearthed metallic artifacts using this wonderful technique over that period,but I can honestly say that I haven't had such a rapid and comprehensive identification of an artifact, as the two respondents to your article (on my behalf) .
as they have both managed in this case
I would like to thank you and the two Phils for your collective efforts in coming to a combined
explanation of the purpose of the badge whose background although local has been rather elusive.I would like also to add my appreciation to the B&R for the part they played in bringing my original question to the attention of your readers.
Would you be so good as to pass on my thanks to Phil Dunning and Phil Harvey for their most
full and accurate opinions on the background of this piece of local history.
If I have further difficulties in identifying any of my finds I will know where to go.
My thanks and best wishes,
Wally. .
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Editor <theeditor@brecon-radnor.co.uk>
Sent: 10 May 2017 10:12
To: wally elliott
Subject: Re: Identification of Badge

Hi Wally,
Just writing to tell you we've had some people contacting the B&R who were able to shed light on your badge find. I'd be extremely grateful if you could email me back with your comments. I have copied and pasted their emails in below,
regards
Patrick Edwards

Phil Dunning emailed: "Hi the badge is West Brecon Local Militia. Formed on 23 March 1809 under the command of Lt Col Comm Henry Allen, kept the same name until 1813 when retitled the Breckonshire Regt, they were disbanded in 1816 in line with the end of Local Militias. The design corresponds to their buttons as you would expect. It could be a belt plate or badge, hard to tell from the images. There was also an east Brecon unit.

"ID'd by Blue_Yeti on the UK Detectornet Metal Detecting Forum."

Regards, Phil

Phil then attached these details from a page on the website of auctioneers Dix Noonan Webb relating to a cross belt from the Royal Welch Fusiliers (1800-1820).

You can see the page for yourself at https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/s ... _id=282368

The Collection of Militaria to Welsh Regiments formed by the Late Llewellyn Lord

Date of Auction: 27th September 2016

Sold for £1,900

Estimate: £500 - £700
The Collection of Militaria to Welsh Regiments formed by the Late Llewellyn Lord
23rd (Royal Welch Fusiliers) Regiment Other Ranks Cross Belt Plate c. 1800 - 1820, an extremely rare heavily die stamped brass example, the rectangular plate with clipped corners, the central design being St. Edward’s crown over a strap ‘Royal Welsh Fusiliers’, in the centre the Prince of Wales’s crest and motto over ‘XXIII’, complete with single hook and two stud fasteners, service wear to the overall design otherwise in good condition £500-700.

A different Phil, Phil Harvey, wrote to the B&R saying: "The badge is of the West Brecon Local Militia. Hope this helps."

When I emailed him back with some of Phil Dunning's information, he wrote: "Things like this are only obvious if you have knowledge of them in the first place. I organise and run detecting events for a group called 'The Metal Detectives' so I need to have a broad area of knowledge when it comes to the finds we uncover! The unit would have been active around the c1800 period. There is a mention of them in 'The Local Militia Paymaster; Or Military Friend' by Capt. George Thomas in 1812 (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1pU ... 22&f=false) and also in a newspaper article of 1809 (http://papuraunewydd.llyfrgell.cymru/vi ... 2022:58:15) but to find out when they first became active would be hard unless you looked into old militia lists of the period which are often hard to get hold of. They may have formed as early as say 1780-90 but it could have been post 1800 as some milita units were only active for a very short period of time. Regarding it's use I believe it was more likely used as a shoulder belt plate rather than a hat."
Papurau Newydd Cymru Arlein Advertising|1809-06-24|The Cambrian - Papurau Newydd Cymru Arlein
papuraunewydd.llyfrgell.cymru
Darganfod 15 miliwn o erthyglau a 1.1 miliwn o dudalennau

The local militia paymaster; or, Military friend
books.google.co.uk
/

Regards Phil

After seeing your image of the reverse side of the badge, he said: "Yes, on the crown reverse side where the hole is you can see where the hook was attached and the two circular bits near the holes at the bottom are the remains of the fixing studs. To me the holes suggest the fixings were broken off either through use or delibratly and the plate reused with the holes being used for attachment to something."

Tel: 01874 610111
Fax: 01874 624359
------------------------
The Brecon and Radnor Express Ltd is a limited company registered in England
and Wales. Registered number: 2677142. Registered Office: The Old Court House, Union Road, Farnham, GU9 7PT
___________________________________________________________________________
Confidentiality Notice: This message and any accompanying files contain
confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose.
This information is private and protected by law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or
distribution, or the taking of any action based on the contents of this
information, is strictly prohibited.

On 14 Apr 2017, at 21:13, wally elliott wrote:

hi Patrick,
Herewith, I hope the two pictures requested,
best regards,
Wally Elliott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wally elliott <st.catwg@hotmail.com>
Sent: 12 April 2017 18:19
To: theeditor@brecon-radnor.co.uk
Subject: Identification of Badge

Dear Sir/Madam,
I wonder whether you can find a space in your newspaper to include the following article and photos and to place before your readers the possibility of someone being able to identify what appears
to being an object of local interest.
The two photographs are the front and back of a badge that I recovered using a metal detector,from a field near Pennorth.It is made of brass,is oval in shape and measures 8cmx2.6cm.
"The design on the badge has as its main feature a 8 pointed star mounted by a crown and has the
Prince of Wales feathers central to the star.
Around the feathers is a belt carrying the script WEST BRECON LM,although the LM letters are open to interpretation.
The badge would originally have been mounted on a cap or helmet with 3 pins or rivets.
I have made tentative enquirees with the Dyfed,Powys police but they have not been able to connect the badge to their force.
Any ideas please?

Wally Elliott,
5,St Catwgs Close,
Llangattock,
Crickhowell,
Powys.

Tel:01873 810567

<pictures 001.jpg><pictures 002.jpg>
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PhilD
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Re: Can anyone help me identify this badge

Post by PhilD »

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blue_yeti
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Re: Can anyone help me identify this badge

Post by blue_yeti »

Another happy customer!!

BY
My Hammered Score, 341 not out (yet)

Proud member of Legenda- recovering Missing in Action soldiers on the Eastern Front

Dig out those early military and militia buttons and record them at https://asahelena.wixsite.com/militarybuttons

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PhilD
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Re: Can anyone help me identify this badge

Post by PhilD »

And a plug for UKDN :g50:
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