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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 pm 
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Hi AXEHEAD, I wouldn't get to hung up on comments made by myself and JMB about the rally limit to 50 participants. There is already a limit of 50 participants on Stewardship land which I believe to be true. JMB did say that he heard it elsewhere and I myself have read it on the internet somewhere, unfortunately I can't remember where or I would of told your where. To my knowledge this is not within the proposed revising and changes to the Treasure act.



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:27 pm 
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The main reason the act is changing is because they wanted the helmet and couldn't get it, the price they offered was unrealistic

They say with regards to treasure that the the finder get a reward that is equal to the market value at the time.

Can someone clarify to me as to when they say market value, do they mean the uk closed market or open market (there is a vast difference to want something is worth on the open market)


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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:49 pm 
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roxy wrote:
They say with regards to treasure that the the finder get a reward that is equal to the market value at the time.

Can someone clarify to me as to when they say market value, do they mean the uk closed market or open market (there is a vast difference to want something is worth on the open market)


May last treasure valuation for a scattered Stater hoard compared to specimens recently on the market by Tom Eden of Morton & Eden Ltd they also supplied printed page on where they got this information via Coin Archives Pro which was a auction.



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:47 am 
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Coins are easy to value, Artefacts are different


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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:31 am 
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What about the world market value.

SPINK can always advise them as they are sometimes in touch face to face. :g58:



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:46 pm 
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JBM wrote:
What about the world market value.

SPINK can always advise them as they are sometimes in touch face to face. :g58:


It's a idea JBM, but this still leaves artefacts a sticky issue.



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:02 pm 
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I wonder what a permit might comprise of?

This one uses a photocard system;

https://epsom-ewell.gov.uk/sites/defaul ... 202017.pdf



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Permit is all well and good but it could be unfair to a lot of detectorists giving an advantage to younger people in full time employment and just extra expense for the older detectorist that as been detecting years and now managing on the lowest basic pension in Europe.
And going back to the treasure article I know through a lot of Facebook pages a large majority of newer participants are not happy handing over any finds at all, obviously not realising the hard work put in to get us this far in keeping our hobby legal. And the FLO's are not blame free either, my own FLO who I have been good friends with and been to my house to help me with self recording, as been causing problems accusing club members of not recording treasure items, when it turns out the gold item she was referring too was not found on a club dig :g48: they have started spying by going onto facebook and checking people out, but sometimes making 2 + 2 = 5 :g37:


Last edited by Donnydave on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:48 pm 
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I have just been reading comments of the issue on line . And instead everyone fretting about the monetary value of what they may find I would suggest they concentrate on other suggestions in the document.
The one that concerns me is is the part that suggest introducing a permit for all Archeaological work possibly including metal detecting. I cannot make my mind up if this is just a money making scheme or not.
The thing is, is just how this would be instigated. If it applied to everyone having to buy a permit each year , that is one thing.
on the other hand if the number of permits were to be limited then there could be a lot of people with no place to go ,and that could mean the beaches , that needs to be looked at.
Permits could be made to be only accessible by people that are in clubs and on a limited number, try to get into a club if you are not already in one.
I don,t think it will affect me as I will be lucky to get another five years due to age, but the younger ones who detect on a weekly basis may not be able to if rules come in that certain people are pushing for.


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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:08 pm 
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AXE HEAD wrote:
While we are at it ,let us put turnstiles on footpaths , charge for going on beaches, have mountain climbing and potholing licenced, Have cyclists pay road tax and insurance make canoeist pay for access to rivers . I could go on but rant over
Finds for the year 2018 1 dogs head buckle ,no hammered ,no roman, no silver I will give it another year . You are welcome to the land I get to detect on.

Don't give the government anymore ideas axehead,, They have just gone back on their word bye raising gas prices,, when they surposably put a cap on it,

Now I read today .. Another stealth tax, A probate tax when you snuff it. :g40:


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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:30 pm 
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As i understand the permit scheme for Epsom downs has always been limited to 25 people since I have known about it, hopefully there is a member on here holding a Epsom downs permit that could enlighten us?

I would hope if there was a permit scheme introduced (I am not convinced there will be.) That it would be similar to a fishing rod licence, surely it seems logical enough to me you pay for a fishing rod licence whats the difference? Then that money should go onto fund the hobby management, i.e making the FLO's more accessible and funding PAS, local museums etc..

In theory its a hobby like fishing manage it the same. For example you dont get 40 people turning up to the river avon, with no licences stealing the fish then bugger off. licence it and run it via the local museums or FLO's, licence the clubs as well as individuals, and issues fines for non compliance... just thinking out aloud... :g43:



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:03 pm 
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Yes it says 25 people max for one year on that land on the permit Lee :g50:

Due to the media focusing on treasure to sell it'self, it's encourging newcomers to the hobby fixated with finding treasure, unaware of the need to record or uninterested in recording non treasure finds.

To my mind treasure should be something that 'is treasured' not just valuable gold and silver items.

I think it would be a good idea to have a licence, with the money it costs going to enlighten detectorists as to their obligations and towards supporting PAS as you say.

I wouldn't like to have a permit as it could impose many restrictions and additional requirements.

If recording was made mandatory I don't see how it could be policed.



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:20 pm 
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PhilD wrote:
I wouldn't like to have a permit as it could impose many restrictions and additional requirements.

If recording was made mandatory I don't see how it could be policed.


Cheers Phil... :g50: I would rather not have imposed restrictions either but depending on what it or they could be, then maybe a compromise and concessions could or would need to be made if it was for the future good of the hobby. But this is all hear say and guess work, like I said before I don't believe this will happen as it would be a logistical nightmare and probably impossible to police...:g43: I had many hypothetical conversation with David Williams about this scenario and he also couldn't see how it could be implemented either!



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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:07 pm 
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lee greagsbey wrote:
As i understand the permit scheme for Epsom downs has always been limited to 25 people since I have known about it, hopefully there is a member on here holding a Epsom downs permit that could enlighten us?

I would hope if there was a permit scheme introduced (I am not convinced there will be.) That it would be similar to a fishing rod licence, surely it seems logical enough to me you pay for a fishing rod licen :g50: ce whats the difference? Then that money should go onto fund the hobby management, i.e making the FLO's more accessible and funding PAS, local museums etc..

In theory its a hobby like fishing manage it the same. For example you dont get 40 people turning up to the river avon, with no licences stealing the fish then bugger off. licence it and run it via the local museums or FLO's, licence the clubs as well as individuals, and issues fines for non compliance... just thinking out aloud... :g43:


We have already had licensing lee in the seventies , I had one .. I think,, if I remember rightly,, it was thatcher who got rid of it ,

I wouldn't like to see it go along the permit route ,, Who would administer it ,
Who would choose who gets one ..It could be the thin edge of the wedge,


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 Post subject: Re: More treasure-hunters could be forced to hand over
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:23 pm 
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I am interested in what you remember about the 70's licencing IR... was it limited numbers back in the day then? Was it on a yearly renewal bases? And ideas why Thatcher got rid of it? Sorry with all the questions I am interested...

Like you have said I and I have said in earlier posts I cant see it happening the administration and to police it would be near enough impossible and now the NCMD put out a statement on page 9 of issue 26 digging deep
Rejecting the idea of the re-introduction of detector licences.



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