Should archaeologists and MD's work more together
-
rufus
- meble kuchenne warszawa
-
Guest
I attempted to voice my concerns about how representative the forum was of the hobby in general on an earlier thread.
I will try to put into words my thoughts, and hope it will make some sense
If you put all detector users on a sliding scale from the one extreme of the casual hobbyist who has only a passing interest in the finds, to the other extreme of being passionately involved in the history and archeology of the finds and surrounding area.
The majority will fall somewhere in between these two examples I expect.
The part of this majority nearer to the second extreme are the most likely to be using the internet and forums for reference material and finds ID etc.
Therefore any opinion polls etc. should be treated with care as they will carry the same bias
.
I will try to put into words my thoughts, and hope it will make some sense
If you put all detector users on a sliding scale from the one extreme of the casual hobbyist who has only a passing interest in the finds, to the other extreme of being passionately involved in the history and archeology of the finds and surrounding area.
The majority will fall somewhere in between these two examples I expect.
The part of this majority nearer to the second extreme are the most likely to be using the internet and forums for reference material and finds ID etc.
Therefore any opinion polls etc. should be treated with care as they will carry the same bias
.
-
Saablady
Re: ok
Jeb, I can understand your views in the last sentence and by reading P Barford's lengthy post the reason why you do is a clear and reasonable assumption.jeb wrote:I MAY be wrong in saying this Paul, but i get the feeling that you,on your side of the fence ,have your doubts as to any harmonious workable situation that could occur in the near future? The reasons for both sides of interests seem miles apart to be able to co-exist possibly.
Prompted by the tone of P Barfords postings I have visited, many times, the PAS Forum to see what is really going on. I can assure you that P Barford, and his views, is not representative of all the people on that forum.
Many of the discussion threads have contributions from widely differing points of view including detectorists. Points they have put forward have not only been listened to but have, in some cases, resulted in wording being ammended thus ensuring clarity in what is said especially in relation to detecting.
Reading what you are saying but not how you are saying it is evident that you hold very strong views about the present situation concerning the future of detecting.
Should you be reluctant to post on the forum please pm me with what you want to say. Strong language in this kind of situation is not a problem - unless it is aimed at me.
Lynda.
-
Badger
there seems to be misconceptions running in here again...
Archaeologists are not saving these sites for there own personal use.
Archaeologists are not intending to impose a series of stringent conditions on detectorists.
A poll must always be taken with a pinch of salt.. I agree.. but I notice the amount of views the poll has had.. and I expect (that apart from the odd repeat view) if the poll was going in a way that was not agreed with then people would vote... after all it is anon and instant.
I agree that most detectorists fall into the middle category of casual interest in history etc... but why not come up with guidlines that are enforcable and acceptable.
I have to work within legal constraints as well. I am not allowed to wander onto a scheduled site either.
I am just appauled at arcaheolgist reports that are years in publication and no attempt made to let the local people know what is happening. They forget who they do it for.
If I find a site (which I have) which is being ploughed (which it is) I deal with it in conjunction with all parties... nice as it would be for me to go in and 'rescue the site' I am not prepared to carry out an extensive excavation as yet. In fact... one of my first actions will be a spot of detecting to establish an accurate plot of metal objects related to ceramic and bone finds... then I can match this with geophysics and aerial plots and plan a strategy. It may feel painfully slow.... but it is a better way of collecting as much information in the long run.
I see this as very much horses for courses... detectorists have a role to play and must be respected... and archaeologists have a role to play and must be respected... I am not looking for christmas cards every year... but I am looking for cooperation from both sides. I will happily show my skills (including the infamous blindfolded troweling!) if you will teach me yours so I can understand better what it is you do... and visa versa.
As to the Poll... perhaps a question could be asked of each club in the UK... a 'where do you stand question and also a what do want to see as the way forward. I still would like a weekend meeting with all the relevant parties....
Still smilin!!
Archaeologists are not saving these sites for there own personal use.
Archaeologists are not intending to impose a series of stringent conditions on detectorists.
A poll must always be taken with a pinch of salt.. I agree.. but I notice the amount of views the poll has had.. and I expect (that apart from the odd repeat view) if the poll was going in a way that was not agreed with then people would vote... after all it is anon and instant.
I agree that most detectorists fall into the middle category of casual interest in history etc... but why not come up with guidlines that are enforcable and acceptable.
I have to work within legal constraints as well. I am not allowed to wander onto a scheduled site either.
I am just appauled at arcaheolgist reports that are years in publication and no attempt made to let the local people know what is happening. They forget who they do it for.
If I find a site (which I have) which is being ploughed (which it is) I deal with it in conjunction with all parties... nice as it would be for me to go in and 'rescue the site' I am not prepared to carry out an extensive excavation as yet. In fact... one of my first actions will be a spot of detecting to establish an accurate plot of metal objects related to ceramic and bone finds... then I can match this with geophysics and aerial plots and plan a strategy. It may feel painfully slow.... but it is a better way of collecting as much information in the long run.
I see this as very much horses for courses... detectorists have a role to play and must be respected... and archaeologists have a role to play and must be respected... I am not looking for christmas cards every year... but I am looking for cooperation from both sides. I will happily show my skills (including the infamous blindfolded troweling!) if you will teach me yours so I can understand better what it is you do... and visa versa.
As to the Poll... perhaps a question could be asked of each club in the UK... a 'where do you stand question and also a what do want to see as the way forward. I still would like a weekend meeting with all the relevant parties....
Still smilin!!
-
paul_beecham
-
jeb
Saab man, i knew you`d head for that line of thinking when i posted my post on at that time 85 members had voted in favor. (not you personally, but whoever). Try looking at another way. If there was a vote in this country for using the Euro as the currency. If out of say off the top of my head a figure of the total population of the UK was 25 million. Lets say only 1 million voted " yes." Is that really a sound and fair assumption that the UK was in favor of having the Euro as its currency.
It doesn`t prove a thing.
Can i also point out that there are lots and lots of people who metaldetect in the UK, that are not even on the internet, so where does their vote come in???So this conception that your poll is a TRUE voice of the Metaldetecting people of the UK , and i loathe to use this word , is bordering on a farce.
This Poll is of the UK detector net members only, and up to now a very small percentage of the WHOLE of its members have voted.
So i`m afraid if you perceive that it`s a resounding YES victory to the working with Archie's by your findings of your poll. Its a very hollow victory in my book.I take your point about the percentage that have voted in favor. But if i was for the `Yes`camp i`d feel elated yes on your result from your members who have voted up to now , but deep down i would still feel it was a hollow victory. Thats all.
It doesn`t prove a thing.
Can i also point out that there are lots and lots of people who metaldetect in the UK, that are not even on the internet, so where does their vote come in???So this conception that your poll is a TRUE voice of the Metaldetecting people of the UK , and i loathe to use this word , is bordering on a farce.
This Poll is of the UK detector net members only, and up to now a very small percentage of the WHOLE of its members have voted.
So i`m afraid if you perceive that it`s a resounding YES victory to the working with Archie's by your findings of your poll. Its a very hollow victory in my book.I take your point about the percentage that have voted in favor. But if i was for the `Yes`camp i`d feel elated yes on your result from your members who have voted up to now , but deep down i would still feel it was a hollow victory. Thats all.
-
jeb
0k
YES Rufus but it, as is already pointed out by a few members ,is not clear by WHO`S guidelines. The people who have voted yes to that may think that its to the Metaldetecterists guide lines. Maybe the Archies would perceive it to be `their` guidelinesrufus wrote:Interesting thing about the vote is that the initial rush of straight out 'YES' votes seems to have stalled and the more cautious 'Yes, but within guidelines' seems to be catching up. Is this true?
:lol:-
Guest
I hear what you are saying Jeb. It is a representation of the voters on UKDN. Only, at this point, 88 have voted out of the entire membership but that is not down to us. We have given them the chance to vote. If they don't they don't have their oppinion added. Maybe there are only 88 members with 16 odd IDs each 
-
rufus
-
Guest
-
Saabman
Jeb - your prescience astounds me! And I thought only women could read my mind! :lol:
I point out that I do not 'percieve that it's is a resounding victory' (mind-reading mal-function here) but was simply stating that Badger's 80% of people voting were in favour, was a correct assessment of the current situation. That's all. Whether it's a true reflection is another thing . . .
And I thought only women could read my mind! :lol: I point out that I do not 'percieve that it's is a resounding victory' (mind-reading mal-function here) but was simply stating that Badger's 80% of people voting were in favour, was a correct assessment of the current situation. That's all. Whether it's a true reflection is another thing . . .
-
Guest
One thing seems not to have occurred to the paranoid "they are out to get us all, just you wait and see" brigade.Detecnicks wrote:You consider Pauls post excellent?.. have you really read it? I think in main it echoes his never ending quest to have the hobby controlled by whatever means he can employ to do so. .
Suppose:
1) We CAN get a 'Code of Conduct for Responsible Detecting in England and Wales' [or whatever its title will be] agreed, and lets say it contains what is acceptable to both (BOTH) sides...
2) It can be shown after a while that (say) some 75% of detectorists are voluntarily using this as a basis for their activities (i.e., complying with say 90% of its postulates)....
Then not only would there be no NEED for any kind of "controls" because the whole issue would be self-regulating, but more importantly nobody could ever get a government to agree to pass siuch legislation.
So why not see what in fact the archaeologists want to see in such a code and then make an effort to try and understand why and then see whether there might not be reasons why the detectorist too might not want to go along with it - if only half way. Talk about it, but please don't just listen to those who seem to automatically dismiss it all as some ghastly spectre threatening the hobby.
-
rufus
You like putting me on the spotstevieskin wrote:how can any discussions, which may result in changes to the hobby, be carried forward on the backs of so few opinions??
NCMD will represent their members and The Searcher are coming too. I hope in time the discussions will be broadly representative of the majority of active detectorists.