Should this be reported?

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Baldric
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Re: Should this be reported?

Post by Baldric »

How long is a piece of string (Twice as long as when its folded in half)!
Just because you are not paranoid, it does not mean that they are not out to get you

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fillinholes

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by fillinholes »

Sounds like a scattered hoard - well done...

Badger

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by Badger »

Nice one... hope that m3 gets back to you.

Even if its not on Stewardship land its worth recording, as it does sound like either a hoard or a site... as they say... no harm comes of recording.. it's good for all..

nice one..

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peterh
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Re: Should this be reported?

Post by peterh »

This is from the Treasure Act code of Practice:

13. So far as concerns finds consisting exclusively of coins, again any decision will be for the coroner, but only the following three categories will usually be considered treasure: (a) hoards, which have been deliberately hidden; (b) groups such as the contents of purses, which may have been dropped or lost and (c) votive or ritual deposits. In the case of votive deposits, the `same place' (see paragraph 12) may include deposition in a well or sacred spring or within a temple precinct, or within a similar location judged to be of ritual purpose. (All groups of fewer than ten base metal coins found on their own are excluded.) Assemblages of coins that may reasonably be interpreted as individual losses accumulated over a period of time and that were in all probability never deposited in physical association (for example those found on settlement sites or on fair sites) should not normally be considered treasure. Most hoards and purses are not associated with settlement or fair sites, although they may be.

So it depends on the coins whether they will be classed as treasure. If they are all from a similar date or there are other clear similarities, then they may be treasure. If they were from many diferent dates, indicating that they had probably been lost over a long period, then not treasure, unless considered votive deposits.
Consequitur quodcunque petit

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peterh
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Re: Should this be reported?

Post by peterh »

.....but still worth recording even if doesn't seem to fit the category of Treasure.
Consequitur quodcunque petit

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fillinholes

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by fillinholes »

Nice to know the farmer would not have to pay for an excavation if it was decided to hold one on his land.

Badger wrote:definate report (or is it record?) if they all come from a certain area, and not anywhere else, it could represent a site... and the farmer will thank you... as this would actually increase his payments ( and no he would not have to pay for excvations OR lose the area )

ask m300572 for more details

but this is a good thing... if you feel worried.. ask m300572 - he will confirm this (I hope)

it could be a building...

Badger

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by Badger »

Thats correct fillin... if people want to excavate on a farmers land and (as I intend to do in August... and will be in April) then the farmer does not have to pay a penny.. and in fact will get treated jsut like you treat them... with grateful thanks and a bottle of the amber!

If it was going to disrupt his plans, then it would either have to be compensated... but more likely, just wait til it suits him. ( again, I have to wait till October to get into one field with a pottery beneath the topsoil.

The only time a farmer pays is when he gets treated like everyone else.. as a developer (an even then, its a moot point!) And thats a development matter.

jobo13

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by jobo13 »

Badger wrote:Thats correct fillin... if people want to excavate on a farmers land and (as I intend to do in August... and will be in April) then the farmer does not have to pay a penny.. and in fact will get treated jsut like you treat them... with grateful thanks and a bottle of the amber!

If it was going to disrupt his plans, then it would either have to be compensated... but more likely, just wait til it suits him. ( again, I have to wait till October to get into one field with a pottery beneath the topsoil.

The only time a farmer pays is when he gets treated like everyone else.. as a developer (an even then, its a moot point!) And thats a development matter.
Badger - I see from your Profile you are in Lothian Scotland, Treasure Laws are in certain instances different from those in England, do all the points you make apply to England particularly what you say about Farmers land ?

Badger

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by Badger »

I am indeed in the Lothians...

quite right that there are different versions of the same laws...
is England and Wales : PPG16
Scotland PAN42

England and Wales... PAS (items over 300 year et etc... gold... blah blah_)
Scotland - Treasure Trove (everything)

However, I work on a national basis and can assure that where general advice is given, this is meant to be true across the UK unless otherwise stated. well spotted! :)

m300572

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by m300572 »

From the description of the number of coins in a small area it does appear to be a scattered hoard. The only other location where there is likely to be this sort of concentration is either round a site where votive offerings were made (often springs) or in the business district of an urban area (and you would be likely to know if there was small Roman town there. The date and type of coins will help the identification of the type of deposit - there has been enough study of Roman coins from excavated setlements, military sites, temples and springs and hoards to be able to tell the type of depositional history from the type and date distributions of a group.

In terms of Environmental Stewardship payments it may not actually qualify as we only pay for management options on sites where there is surviving archaeology - we tend not to count scatters of artefacts UNLESS they can be shown to derive from something that could be helped - a scatter of Saxon metal and bits of bone on land that hasnt been ploughed for ten years might be a cemetery that would benefit from not being ploughed, this scatter of coins probably would not be helped by being taken out of ploughing and in fact detecting the site and remnoving and recording coins from the ploughsoil would perhaps add mor to the record and the long term survival of the coins that leaving them to be rattled around every year in chemical soaked soil.

The farmer shouldn't suffer any advers consequences from recording - as said above, any research excavation would need to have his permission and he would not be stuck with the bill. The record of the coins (and any Treasure Act reward as a reported hoard) will possibly be of benefit - most farmers I have met are interested in the history of their land and are usually really happy to get any extra information.

Regards

Peter

Steve-B

Re: Should this be reported?

Post by Steve-B »

Thanks for clarifying this Peter, much appreciated.

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