Hoard finder did not have permission!!!

[Donnydave]

Ok I said I wouldn't respond but I will lol, Trespassing is not a 'major' crime so if he is found guilty of trespass then he'll probably just get a 'warning' ...... wow, big thing....

when he found the hoard he 'handed it in' so he did the right thing!= he handed it in..... he didn't steal it and try and sell it on the black market did he?

Now I'm not sure how the reward works? If the farmer wants to share it with him then that could be up to the farmer??

and lets face it, its not as if he broke into the farmers house and committed murder is it? its just that most people on here are slightly over reacting about the whole situation

Most of us ask for permission, if we find a hoard we declare it and go 50/50 with the farmer no problems. If some wise ass goes anywhere without permission, he pockets the finds and steals from the farmer, unless he finds a hoard and decides to hand it in because he panics or feels guilty, but most farmers when they find out think we are all like this chancer and that is when it gets hard to obtain permission, its called getting tarred with the same brush, he should get nothing and taken to court.

[Old Git John]

Ok I said I wouldn't respond but I will lol, Trespassing is not a 'major' crime so if he is found guilty of trespass then he'll probably just get a 'warning' ...... wow, big thing....

when he found the hoard he 'handed it in' so he did the right thing!= he handed it in..... he didn't steal it and try and sell it on the black market did he?

Now I'm not sure how the reward works? If the farmer wants to share it with him then that could be up to the farmer??

and lets face it, its not as if he broke into the farmers house and committed murder is it? its just that most people on here are slightly over reacting about the whole situation

I do not believe that folk are "over reacting", as you put it, there is a pretty much general feeling about what transpired when the man went out with his detector, he done the wrong thing.

Nobody so far has accused him of not handing the hoard in, nor would they.

Finally, by posting remarks like the ones above, you are giving out the impression that you do not care about the wrongdoing. You need to look carefully at the wider implications for the hobby, and its future, if behavior such as his is shown to be condoned, even by the smallest of numbers. Those who would like to see the hobby no longer in existence, or greatly restricted, will just love your kind of opinions, because they will paint the picture according to their view of the canvass.

[warwick wolf]

Ok I said I wouldn't respond but I will lol, Trespassing is not a 'major' crime so if he is found guilty of trespass then he'll probably just get a 'warning' ...... wow, big thing....

when he found the hoard he 'handed it in' so he did the right thing!= he handed it in..... he didn't steal it and try and sell it on the black market did he?

Now I'm not sure how the reward works? If the farmer wants to share it with him then that could be up to the farmer??

and lets face it, its not as if he broke into the farmers house and committed murder is it? its just that most people on here are slightly over reacting about the whole situation

Dain,

you've lost the plot mate, the laws the law, thats why this country is in such a mess, too soft and no deterent, he shouldn't have been on that land full stop........... by your logic we could all toottle along to any field, land, SAM site, or wherever without any regard for permission and hope for the best, safe in the knowledge that we "might" get a warning. True enough it wasn't murder but its the law neverthelesss, driving without insurance isn't murder.....blah blah blah... where does it end? when does something "cross the line".........we each have our own lines that we choose not to cross, detecting without permission is one of mine!

[dain]

I do not believe that folk are "over reacting", as you put it, there is a pretty much general feeling about what transpired when the man went out with his detector, he done the wrong thing.

Nobody so far has accused him of not handing the hoard in, nor would they.

Finally, by posting remarks like the ones above, you are giving out the impression that you do not care about the wrongdoing. You need to look carefully at the wider implications for the hobby, and its future, if behavior such as his is shown to be condoned, even by the smallest of numbers. Those who would like to see the hobby no longer in existence, or greatly restricted, will just love your kind of opinions, because they will paint the picture according to their view of the canvass.

The hobby has had implications since the 1970's, thieves have been stealing from the land since the 1970's, people will still continue to steal and people will still continue in trying to restrict the hobby, neither of these are going to suddenly disappear overnight, if anything its worse than the 1970's because the archaeologists kicked it all off again with that 'nighthawking survey' which turned into a joke

I am just being realistic because I know the law, I believe the hobby will never get banned or restricted, it was hard enough to ban fox hunting which was a barbaric and cruel sport, to ban a hobby such as metal detecting is just laughable

and from my posting I seem to have caused quite a stir which just brings me back to what I quoted originally that 'most people on here are slightly over reacting about the whole situation'

Lifes too short to spend all day moaning about things which cannot be undone, try enjoying life more and concentrate your time and effort on more enjoyable things instead of whinging on internet forums

[Old Git John]

I do not believe that folk are "over reacting", as you put it, there is a pretty much general feeling about what transpired when the man went out with his detector, he done the wrong thing.

Nobody so far has accused him of not handing the hoard in, nor would they.

Finally, by posting remarks like the ones above, you are giving out the impression that you do not care about the wrongdoing. You need to look carefully at the wider implications for the hobby, and its future, if behavior such as his is shown to be condoned, even by the smallest of numbers. Those who would like to see the hobby no longer in existence, or greatly restricted, will just love your kind of opinions, because they will paint the picture according to their view of the canvass.

The hobby has had implications since the 1970's, thieves have been stealing from the land since the 1970's, people will still continue to steal and people will still continue in trying to restrict the hobby, neither of these are going to suddenly disappear overnight, if anything its worse than the 1970's because the archaeologists kicked it all off again with that 'nighthawking survey' which turned into a joke

I am just being realistic because I know the law, I believe the hobby will never get banned or restricted, it was hard enough to ban fox hunting which was a barbaric and cruel sport, to ban a hobby such as metal detecting is just laughable

and from my posting I seem to have caused quite a stir which just brings me back to what I quoted originally that 'most people on here are slightly over reacting about the whole situation'

Lifes too short to spend all day moaning about things which cannot be undone, try enjoying life more and concentrate your time and effort on more enjoyable things instead of whinging on internet forums

It is not down as you put it to, "whinging on internet forums", otherwise you are accusing all who find this thread worthy of commenting on, are whinging, except for you.

You state that, "I know the law", if that is the case, then you know full well that the comments being made are entirely justifiable, and that, peoples reactions are not down to overreacting, no matter how slightly.

I do enjoy my life thank you very much, and also like a good debate, conducted in a civil manner.

I have not been rude to you, but have said where I disagree with you. Please extend to me the same courtesy.

[marcsdigs]

Its through comments like yours Dain that I see this hobby being put under observation & with license. This hobby, as said plenty of times, is being given a bad name and 'all' who are against it will use this 'offence' (beit worded ours who try our utmost to adhere to the code) to muster more against us. What I've said earlier will happen due to this & as its been built up over the years will most probably be set up by us to winkle out the bad.
Lets hope the law doers do.

[Steve Rice]

I do enjoy my life thank you very much, and also like a good debate, conducted in a civil manner.

I have not been rude to you, but have said where I disagree with you. Please extend to me the same courtesy.

[hedgehog]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted, but it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story. The guy who made the find is being tried and found guilty without the opportunity of reply, I'm sure if he is reading this he would not risk putting his head above the parapet.
Also, Peter Reavill (FLO) is an educated and diligent person and I am sure that if he felt that the finder deserved prosecution, then he would be pursuing that option through the correct channels. Time will tell.
But I do understand where Dain is coming from, and wasn't it Jesus who said , let he who is without sin cast the first stone? Not many sinners here :-)

[petethedig]

I don't think we need to be quoting the bible too much on here, we can all use it for our own ends if needs be (if that were the case then I could use a few, including the one in which a man finds treasure in a field, instead of stealing it he goes and buys the field making the contents his (but then that would be taking scripture totally out of context wouldn't it!), what is important here are a few principles that govern all our lives.

Firstly we all hopefully have permission where we detect, that is a requirement of keeping ourselves away from prosecutions, not of trespassing, but a criminal act of 'going equipped to steal'. Trespassing is a bye-law, stealing is criminal law.

Secondly, if anyone knowingly takes something from the ground that is an act of theft, and it is just like going into a farmers house and stealing his possessions, the same principle applies.

Thirdly, the FLO can make a complaint to the police if he/she feels something that should have been declared treasure has not been, and this has happened before now, but it is only the landowner that can make a complaint about theft as it his his/her land. Even the tenant has no right to make an official complaint against an individual as the landowner has the prima facie right. Sometimes the introduction of prima facie evidence is informally called making a case or building a case, which can only come from the person/s who are able to bring such a case. In this instance the FLO cannot ask the police to arrest the man, the FLO's job is to make sure the law concerning treasure finds is in order, so once the man had handed the coins over the FLO was done. The question then arises from the FLO, where did you find it and who is the landowner? This comes from the paperwork involved and raises the question of permission. The treasure Act obviously requires a finder and a owner of the land. When contact with the owner is made it is then they can start to complain about this find being made without permission and at this point they can bring the police in, or not if they don't want the bother, which some don't......and maybe the case here.

This is where you find out about the kind of person it is who owns the land, they could be grateful that someone has handed the find over, even though they didn't have any permission, or they can say you have no right to any reward as you effectively stole from me. The fact that the hoard was handed over is neither here nor there, it was gained from a criminal act.

I would suggest that the fact this has made it to the TVC, or will do soon, then no such complaint has been made because it doesn't seem to have made the news anywhere or we'd already know about someone being charged. In which case this man may have gotten incredibly lucky, by not only missing out on a criminal record that would follow him around for the rest of his life, but may actually get a reward, even if that is reduced due to his actions.

As I've said all along if he gets a reward then that makes what the rest of us do every week a total sham, if illegal detecting can be seen to benefit someone then why do the rest of us stick to the rules and law concerning such things. What is true is as Dave stated, it affacts us all when we go to farms to try and get permission to detect, and soon passes onto anyone who would want to see the demise of detecting in the UK.

I too think this is a good debate to have, even if it makes one person stop and think before they do something silly that could affect the rest of their lives.

[Old Git John]

Well stated Pete

[marcsdigs]

Yes, wise words indeed but, I just hope this 'was' the only find he found of such size, I wonder if a small find say, a gold Roman ring/s or something of that nature hasn't been taken from the area, it wont be noticed or logged into our history so, I do hope this was his only find.

[popsandme]

Ok I said I wouldn't respond but I will lol, Trespassing is not a 'major' crime so if he is found guilty of trespass then he'll probably just get a 'warning' ...... wow, big thing....

when he found the hoard he 'handed it in' so he did the right thing!= he handed it in..... he didn't steal it and try and sell it on the black market did he?

Now I'm not sure how the reward works? If the farmer wants to share it with him then that could be up to the farmer??

and lets face it, its not as if he broke into the farmers house and committed murder is it? its just that most people on here are slightly over reacting about the whole situation

so how would you feel if in the dead of night someone was caught by the police in your back garden with some screwdrivers, lump hammer, jemmy, gloves and a balaclava......its still classed as trespass with intent/going equiped to steal........would you still think the law was "over reacting"???........no??, thought not

im sure the "law" states that if you dont have permission to detect on someone elses land and then get caught on said land you can be prosecuted for "trespass with intent/going equiped to steal".......(i welcome clarification on my last statement)

[hedgehog]

Maybe the guy made a mistake, if he was the criminal that you have all decided he is, it would have been stupidity to declare it, wouldn't it? As I stated earlier, it would be nice to hear his side of the story, how long he has been detecting etc; and you're all going to say, ignorance is no excuse, but that is the way of the world ! Hang him then if that's the way you do things. I'm just glad that he did let someone know, and the hoard will end up in the right place.
Well done him for being honest!

[marcsdigs]

Maybe the guy made a mistake, if he was the criminal that you have all decided he is, it would have been stupidity to declare it, wouldn't it? As I stated earlier, it would be nice to hear his side of the story, how long he has been detecting etc; and you're all going to say, ignorance is no excuse, but that is the way of the world ! Hang him then if that's the way you do things. I'm just glad that he did let someone know, and the hoard will end up in the right place.
Well done him for being honest!

If he had a friend that had been detecting for 34 years, what would you say there?.................both didn't know about asking permission?............ignorance from them both?......I would love to hear what he has to say so, if you know him, let him talk

[popsandme]

Well done him for being honest!

i think thats the only thing he deserves a pat on the back for.......as has been said before his "mate" has been detecting for some 30+ years, and in my opinion if it was him that got him interested in the hobby then the "requirements" should have been explained.......but dare i say it, is his mate up to "similar" tricks?......as we all know the problems in this hobby are far too widespread.......

marc...we posted at the same time