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 Post subject: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:08 pm 
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This cop must have got gold fever?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/me ... er-9699004



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:37 pm 
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obviously thought he was above the law, not only does he give detecting a bad name but he also aint done a great deal for all those honest police officers out there.
by the sounds of it he could be getting the book thrown at him, i hope he gets banned from any metal detecting activity as well!!
Sources said that the two finds taken together potentially made it the largest ever hoard of the type of coins ever found in the UK............shame the nation cant see it in its entirety.



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Yes he should definitely get a custodial sentence and I hope the story is also printed in the two metal detecting magazines as a warning and also to state that most detectorists are honest people who do report finds.

I also wonder if the dealer could also be prosecuted for handling stolen goods, as ignorance is no excuse in the law and I would have thought that all of the coins could be traced to who ever bought them and should be returned to go through the treasure process? Or am I living in cloud Cuckoo land and nobody can be bothered to do this?

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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:11 pm 
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dig-it-pete wrote:
Yes he should definitely get a custodial sentence and I hope the story is also printed in the two metal detecting magazines as a warning and also to state that most detectorists are honest people who do report finds.

I also wonder if the dealer could also be prosecuted for handling stolen goods, as ignorance is no excuse in the law and I would have thought that all of the coins could be traced to who ever bought them and should be returned to go through the treasure process? Or am I living in cloud Cuckoo land and nobody can be bothered to do this?

Answers on a post card :g64:

at the risk of dropping into the realms of discussing coin values:-
the dealer paid £15k........how much do you think the mark up was?
so on that basis do you honestly think that the TVC would have valued the coins at what the dealer sold them for and subsequently buy them back off the buyers for that amount?
i rest my case m'lud!



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:24 pm 
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popsandme wrote:
dig-it-pete wrote:
Yes he should definitely get a custodial sentence and I hope the story is also printed in the two metal detecting magazines as a warning and also to state that most detectorists are honest people who do report finds.

I also wonder if the dealer could also be prosecuted for handling stolen goods, as ignorance is no excuse in the law and I would have thought that all of the coins could be traced to who ever bought them and should be returned to go through the treasure process? Or am I living in cloud Cuckoo land and nobody can be bothered to do this?

Answers on a post card :g64:

at the risk of dropping into the realms of discussing coin values:-
the dealer paid £15k........how much do you think the mark up was?
so on that basis do you honestly think that the TVC would have valued the coins at what the dealer sold them for and subsequently buy them back off the buyers for that amount?
i rest my case m'lud!

Were the coins not sold on illegally? So they would not have to buy them back - the dealer should pay back the money as he was dealing with stolen goods? Surely the law must apply here? Why should the dealer get away Scott free and make a profit out of dealing with stolen property???



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:14 pm 
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there is that of course pete, but look at it like this, the dealer is forced to hand the cash back to the buyers theoretically for the return of the coins, then the dealer has to return the coins to the BM, who is to fork out the £15K to reimburse the dealer? the copper will cry the poor tale "im skint, im in the nick i cant pay" etc etc.....im just playing devils advocate and all that.
but there is the fact that the dealer should have insisted on the provenance of the coins before handing over any dough so probably yes he could be held accountable for handling ill gotten gains. or do you reckon the coins could be seized under the proceeds of crime thingy........im not expert in the law though.



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:43 pm 
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May be it's time to set a precedent and make a example out of both of them, and as a warning to deter dealers in the future...!!



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:47 pm 
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popsandme wrote:
there is that of course pete, but look at it like this, the dealer is forced to hand the cash back to the buyers theoretically for the return of the coins, then the dealer has to return the coins to the BM, who is to fork out the £15K to reimburse the dealer? the copper will cry the poor tale "im skint, im in the nick i cant pay" etc etc.....im just playing devils advocate and all that.
but there is the fact that the dealer should have insisted on the provenance of the coins before handing over any dough so probably yes he could be held accountable for handling ill gotten gains. or do you reckon the coins could be seized under the proceeds of crime thingy........im not expert in the law though.

Why should the dealer be reimbursed? He broke the law as did the copper that sold them to him, they should both have to pay or go to prison...simples.



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:32 am 
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popsandme wrote:
obviously thought he was above the law, not only does he give detecting a bad name but he also aint done a great deal for all those honest police officers out there.
by the sounds of it he could be getting the book thrown at him, i hope he gets banned from any metal detecting activity as well!!
Sources said that the two finds taken together potentially made it the largest ever hoard of the type of coins ever found in the UK............shame the nation cant see it in its entirety.


I totally agree, this moron is evil.



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:51 am 
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If I was a dealer , I would think that the sellers status as a police officer would be therefore mean cast iron honesty. What more could the dealer ask for? Perhaps if he were a politician, a doctor or a teacher, that would have been sufficient. Am I missing something here?


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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:06 am 
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splodge wrote:
If I was a dealer , I would think that the sellers status as a police officer would be therefore mean cast iron honesty. What more could the dealer ask for? Perhaps if he were a politician, a doctor or a teacher, that would have been sufficient. Am I missing something here?

I would have thought that any coin dealer would have wanted to see the BM treasure report for such coins (at the very least) and not just go on someones word? There are bent coppers out there unfortunately as this has proved. So no you do not take anyone's word for it if you are dealing with very rare gold coins found with a metal detector. In my opinion the dealer is definitely at fault and as I said before was in fact dealing in stolen goods. Not sure what the law does about it now though but if I was a detective I would certainly be following up that line of inquiry.

I would be interested to know if anyone actually knows what the law is relating to this - do we have any lawyers or detectives on the forum?



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:10 am 
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just a thought..........i am looking into whether he is a member on here or any other forum for that matter, if he is a member on here then the likelihood is he will get binned, as for the other forums well thats up to them.



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:26 pm 
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popsandme wrote:
just a thought..........i am looking into whether he is a member on here or any other forum for that matter, if he is a member on here then the likelihood is he will get binned, as for the other forums well thats up to them.


:g50: hopefully NCMD and FID will do the same... :g43:



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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:46 pm 
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dig-it-pete wrote:
splodge wrote:
If I was a dealer , I would think that the sellers status as a police officer would be therefore mean cast iron honesty. What more could the dealer ask for? Perhaps if he were a politician, a doctor or a teacher, that would have been sufficient. Am I missing something here?

I would have thought that any coin dealer would have wanted to see the BM treasure report for such coins (at the very least) and not just go on someones word? There are bent coppers out there unfortunately as this has proved. So no you do not take anyone's word for it if you are dealing with very rare gold coins found with a metal detector. In my opinion the dealer is definitely at fault and as I said before was in fact dealing in stolen goods. Not sure what the law does about it now though but if I was a detective I would certainly be following up that line of inquiry.

I would be interested to know if anyone actually knows what the law is relating to this - do we have any lawyers or detectives on the forum?


Point taken. Some sort of documentation should be asked for by the dealer just to cover himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is it so hard to be honest?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:59 pm 
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splodge wrote:
dig-it-pete wrote:
splodge wrote:
If I was a dealer , I would think that the sellers status as a police officer would be therefore mean cast iron honesty. What more could the dealer ask for? Perhaps if he were a politician, a doctor or a teacher, that would have been sufficient. Am I missing something here?

I would have thought that any coin dealer would have wanted to see the BM treasure report for such coins (at the very least) and not just go on someones word? There are bent coppers out there unfortunately as this has proved. So no you do not take anyone's word for it if you are dealing with very rare gold coins found with a metal detector. In my opinion the dealer is definitely at fault and as I said before was in fact dealing in stolen goods. Not sure what the law does about it now though but if I was a detective I would certainly be following up that line of inquiry.

I would be interested to know if anyone actually knows what the law is relating to this - do we have any lawyers or detectives on the forum?


Point taken. Some sort of documentation should be asked for by the dealer just to cover himself.

:g50: It will be interesting splodge to see what happens with the case when it goes to court - though I expect the media will not be bothered by then :g64:



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